Vita Liberte is one of the most profitable lawyers in Latvia. Her company BDO Latvia turns 15 this year, and Vita is immersed in thoughts about life and art.
Please tell us about your beginnings, your childhood and why you decided to become a lawyer!
I was born in the Soviet Union. I think life was not easy for anyone at that time, because there was nothing. You had to learn early to do everything yourself, to cope with everything.
We all start from scratch. Come to think of it, I even had the advantage of having a home, Mom. Others may have no family at all and are in very poor circumstances. People, even if they really want to, cannot implement their plans, because it is simply not possible under the given circumstances.
In my opinion, nothing significant happens without a prior intention. But if you really think of something, then thoughts materialize, I'm pretty sure of that.
I recently read an interview with the English philosopher Henry Hardy, an editor who worked with Isaiah Berlin for many years. Berlin did not like to write much, he spoke more; conversations were very important to him. And this philosopher wrote everything down. When he started working with Isaiah Berlin, he had no books yet, but during his lifetime he wrote many books with Berlin.
Here, he said that a person is definitely born with some kind of mission or talent, and I am also quite sure of that - everyone has a talent. It is not easy to find, and many people never find their vocation or authentic talent during their lifetime, they don't know why they are here in the first place. It is a question to which the answer must be sought throughout life. But still, everyone has their inner mission, and it is extremely important that the external conditions are such that allow this talent to be discovered, developed, and expressed. In the case of Isaiah Berlin, it was a great combination - an extremely talented person, and the society of that time in Riga, even in the province, were ideal conditions for the formation of what was later recognized as the smartest person in Great Britain. Hardy said that Berlin rarely mentioned Riga, he did not like that he came from the province, but he had a very educated mother and the whole society around him was so good. My childhood in Soviet Riga wasn't ideal either, but the conditions for creating a personality were no worse than childhood in present-day Latvia.
Why?
It is about moral education, the Soviet education system emphasized the development of utopian communist virtues, such as willpower, order and discipline. Although this Soviet education system was saturated with communist propaganda and ideology, after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the regaining of Latvia's independence, a moral vacuum was created, the old Soviet virtues were discredited, but new ones were not put in their place. Therefore, in my opinion, education is still of critically low quality. Some foundation seems to have been lost. And not only in Latvia. By the way, you can read about similar thoughts in the currently highly acclaimed book Freedom by my Albanian peer Lea Ypi. I will add that she teaches Marxism at the London School of Economics.
Yes, we may not have benchmarks and authorities...
Yes, it is not only a problem of Latvia, but of the whole world.
Where did you study yourself?
I am from Riga, I studied at secondary school 45 in Teika, not far from my first home. It is a music-oriented school. I used to play the piano, but haven't practiced in a long time. I also sang in a choir and danced in a folk dance group.
What did your mother do?
My mother was an engineer, worked at VEF. The community I was surrounded by, for example, my mother's friends - they all worked at VEF. However, these are also good circumstances - surrounded by educated people, it was clear why education is needed. There is no doubt about education in general - fortunately, in Latvia there are no questions why education is needed, this foundation. Question - what is its education?
Why did you choose law?
I don't know... Can't answer that question. But I live a lot in my head, thinking about something. Only in recent years have I been trying to find myself.
I have been thinking a lot since childhood. Looking at the photos, I see that I am terribly serious in all the pictures. I quickly learned to read, I really liked spending time in the library. Books are still an important part of my life. I had friends in books, I lived there, dreamed, invented everything. I knew from a very early age that I would study law, but I don't know when I thought about it. People around me directed me elsewhere, for example, my mother's friends suggested architecture.
At that time, the pressure from others was considerable.
Yes, but at the same time it was a time of change, the system changed. As a child in the Soviet Union, I was satisfied with everything, it seemed that everything was very good. Later, thoughts began to appear that it is better somewhere there, and this also created great interest - how could it be otherwise? I wanted to go abroad... I was interested in the political situation, Awakening - I followed the events, read the newspapers. He was very interested in the state system and the role of man in it, new leaders also appeared. I thought law was a good way to learn how it all works.
People talked about "previous Latvia". It was a cool time - no one understood anything, but I was already at a conscious age and saw that big changes were happening.
A great time when no one understood anything?
When the Iron Curtain fell, society was largely disoriented. From the utopia of socialism, we began to believe in a new utopia - western liberalism. As a leader of pioneer groups, I met with war veterans, for example, I remember the Soviet functionary Jānis Rozi, who told his wartime memories. And then suddenly a new country, new heroes! And it turns out that the previous heroes are not heroes at all... All this could be learned through jurisprudence.
I think it is worthwhile for any person to study law, because after all, these are the foundations, the laws by which we live.
I assume that studying at the Faculty of Law was also prestigious at that time.
The competition at the University of Latvia was big, but I was an excellent student and there were no problems with admission. It seemed - well, if I study so well, then I should also go where there is a challenge. Now I may think completely differently about what should be studied. However, jurisprudence is essential for any person and I do not regret it, because I learned important things in life and profession - such subjects as logic, Christian thinking or rhetoric, which everyone should know.
I have not heard that it is taught now.
Already Socrates believed that an individual's life is worth being a critical questioner. Before accepting ideas as worthy, it is important to ask deep questions.
I was lucky, because at the university I met professors of the so-called old forge, from Soviet times. To some extent, they were also confused - they had studied the laws of the USSR, but now suddenly a new country! The 1922 Constitution is being brought to light, and they, the professors, should know it all. It derailed them because suddenly everything they were learning was useless. I think it was difficult for them too, but some kind of special moral stance, professional understanding of the same Socratic questioning allowed them to deal with it.
Did the new state consult professors when creating new laws?
Yes, for example, lecturer Gunārs Kusiņš headed the Legal Office of the Saeima for a long time and was one of my favorite lecturers in constitutional law. We witnessed the formation of a new country. Of course, we took many things from the West without sifting, without testing, because the Westerners already know better. It seems to me that then Latvia also got into the wrong wagon, which is called liberalism, without understanding at all why it got there, in what context we are going there and where we are going.
The mutation from the Soviet man to the wild capitalist, unfortunately, produced people who could not stand the test of money or power.
Lennart Meri was in Estonia at that time, and he was able to stay the course, put values in the foundations of the country, and not only in the West... Of course, there is something good in the West, but there had to be a balance.
What was your first job?
If we talk about the professional field, it was PriceWaterhouse, one of the big four of global auditors. International law firms were almost non-existent at that time - and in fact still are not, because the market is very small. I started working there during my studies, in my third year. After my studies, I went to the USA to study for a master's degree at New York University. Also in America I worked there at PWC and it helped me. It was a certain bridge to stay there to work.
Interestingly, my study time was spent in experimental classes - both in kindergarten and at school. I also had an experimental course at the university, because it was at that time that they started to think that a master's degree should be introduced. Before that there were long studies and then postgraduate studies. But while the master's degree was introduced, I had to study for five years, and it turned out to be only a bachelor's degree. Now the bachelor is three years. As a result, we studied for five and a half years, probably the longest undergraduate course in the history of Latvia. Although in fact it is normal - without five years of study, I do not know what kind of lawyer you can get.
A master's degree in the USA only takes one year. They have five years of academic education, and only in the last years can you understand who is better at what to do next. And then there is specialization in the master's degree. I had it in tax law.
Why did you come back from America - it is the land of opportunities, isn't it?
As I have already said, I have always been interested in the foundations of the formation of the state, and I am sure that each life also depends only on each individual. I have never been dependent on anyone, I always wanted to build myself, and I think that we also have to build the country ourselves. This is very important to me. It was too late for me to create something in America, and I also don't like the feeling of being an immigrant. It's very difficult, I don't like an environment where I'm not even part of that society. Although America is considered the land of opportunity and at least on paper is open to everyone, in reality the society there is very segregated and it is not easy to reach any heights in your career, especially if you are a first-degree immigrant. Integration is very slow. It's not for me. But, probably, if I had stayed there, I would now be in an even better situation materially. In terms of intellectual challenges, its country is unmatched by any other. The concentration of intelligence there is undeniably high, especially in New York. We'll see how it goes...
In what way?
It's hard for them, I don't know what will happen to this country. It is about segregation - the gap in society that continues to form there is insane. Nothing gets better, only worse. And that pursuit of all things liberal is not normal; the belief that liberalism is the best thing in the world. However, America is a very clear example of how western liberalism and wild capitalism do not work in the long run. The difference between people is huge.
However, not everyone has the opportunity to create their own life - not everyone can take care of themselves. There is no social protection in America, most people just live in absolute poverty. And to think that everything is cool and everyone can do what they want - it's strange. Well, not everyone can do what they want, they have to be protected somehow. So I think it's pretty crazy in America. Even the intellectual elite will not feel good in such conditions, because such depression is noticeable.
I was lucky - I still enjoyed that cool America when there is elevation, when a person had the best conditions. That's why many of the best minds go there and settle in, the academic environment is cool. However, those people also cannot live in isolation, pretending that they do not see what is happening around them, in other layers.
After your return, you thought you should build your own office?
For some time I worked at Deloitte together with Jānis Zelmenis, who is now also my business partner. Jānis had climbed the career ladder very quickly and it was he who invited me to join his team. I knew Jānis from the PWC days, and he himself found me in New York. He performed several successful curtseys so that I decided to go back to Latvia, because at that time I was wavering. I had lived in New York for three years and was still thinking about what to do. That was a more critical point. If I could stay another year... Four years is already enough time to integrate. Perhaps then it would have stayed.
Sol Bukingolts was also an important person who encouraged me to return to Latvia. At that time, he was one of the most successful businessmen in Latvia. He convinced me that it was a unique opportunity, that this was the best time to go back and build my country. I returned in 2001. Ten years had already passed, cruel capitalism seemed to have calmed down, they could start doing something in a civilized manner. And there was so much to do! I certainly don't regret going back. It is important, essential - to build your country.
I started managing the legal department of Deloitte, worked for six years, passed the bar exam, and in 2007 we founded the office together.
What prompted you to create your own office, given that Deloitte is very prestigious, recognized worldwide.
Deloitte is a large organization. At one point it is clear that you will not be able to change anything in it, you will not be able to create anything yourself, decide for yourself. In general, it is very difficult for me to be a paid employee, it was hard for me there, even though the work was interesting. However, I gained a lot of experience, at that time all managers were expats from foreign countries.
Even though we went nowhere from a fairly secure organization with good, big clients, we had the drive and confidence that everything would work out. A client base had also developed and I felt confident that my clients would come with me. And so it happened.
We started in a crisis year. The timing was interesting - we waited for everything to fall apart and fall apart and left thinking it was a possibility. No matter how paradoxical or sad it is, lawyers always have a job - regardless of whether others are good or bad. I would say that the ideal time to build my office would have been 2005 or
2006, because there were a lot of transactions and we also specialize in commercial law. So, of course, it could have been much better, but the circumstances did not match. They matched
in 2007, and I think that due to our enthusiasm at that time, we also did not realize that we were starting a business on the eve of the crisis. When everything closes, we break free. It seemed that nothing could be more sonorous than Zelmenis & Liberte, that's why we named our office that way.
However, we must admit that we started a little too late. The three big law firms - Sorainen, Cobalt and Ellex - were established in the early 2000s and their entry into the market and stabilization in 2007 changed a lot. It was very difficult for us to get their critical mass. Now we see that the big offices are as they were, and no one is keeping up with them. Outside of that top three, it's hard. In Latvia, the legal market is simply not big enough to support more large law firms, and in fact, even these three are relatively small.
When I worked in America, we had 1200 people in one office. Well, it's an office, and it's a business. An office with 50 lawyers is just an office, not a business.
How was it for you?
We quickly realized that Zelmenis & Liberte would not get far. We were used to international networks and that is a big advantage. We realized that it is not interesting to work in such a closed, national environment. It is interesting to work with international colleagues and clients. For example, if you had to start working with a client who has a branch or clients abroad, you had to look for colleagues abroad, but if you don't have that network, it's actually not that easy.
We started looking for such a network because we are tax consultants and we mostly have various structuring transactions in which we cannot do without it. We found BDO, which works according to the franchise principle and was then owned by Daini Tunstas and Andris Deniņš, but they did not have developed tax consulting. We started to cooperate with them, they gave us the opportunity to use their network, we in turn were like the tax department. And we liked it. The Big Four is still an integrated network, it's such a big partnership by nature, the senior partners can go all the way to New York. BDO is not, it is a franchise, owned by local partners in each country. We pay the franchise from the income, but at the same time being part of the BDO network means we have access to all BDO offices in the world, conferences, quality control and so on. We adhere to certain standards, we have regular training and also network quality checks. That level, however, is higher than boiling in your own juice.
About five years ago, under the BDO franchise, we also took over the other consulting departments - audit, accounting and financial consulting. That was probably the critical moment for us, when we grew exponentially. If until then we had about 20 legal and tax consultants, now we are more than 70 people. We can finally work interdisciplinary, as we are used to working, because only then can we look at the client's problem from all sides - from legal, tax, accounting.
How do you see the further development of your office? Is everything back on track and good now?
We have always had big ambitions. We prepare a budget every year, and it has never been the case that we look and think - well, that's how it is, let's continue. We usually apply the desired growth of at least 20%. If one of the colleagues writes +5%, we always ask - how about 20 percent? I must say, they also come true. But it's about what I already said - in order for something to happen, it must first be planned.
We certainly do not plan to stop, we are always thinking about how to increase the volume and quality of service. It can be different - both with the expansion of the market, where, of course, we still have a lot to do, and to develop both the same and new departments qualitatively and quantitatively. We are also considering offering clients HR and IT consulting.
Are there not enough head hunter companies in Latvia?
Lack of staff, quality of staff... That's the problem. In Latvia, we have what we have, so it is. Latvia is trying to limit the influx of new talent as much as possible, but if I were to lead the country, I would definitely think in that direction - how to expand and improve the attraction of new talent. We are currently putting all possible obstacles in place to prevent this from happening.
How are you yourselves? Are there any management techniques you use to keep your employees happy?
We give quite a lot of freedom - probably because we like freedom ourselves. The question, of course, is what everyone understands by the word freedom. But everything is based on the principle that you yourself are responsible for what you have done. The employee himself has the opportunity to figure out how he will reach the goal and the best possible solution. This is not always the case and not in all organizations, in many places there is an authoritative management style. In that sense we allow one to do as one sees fit; I think that's what sets us apart. We trust, and right now I am already watching with pride, how five young and ambitious heads of departments have largely taken over the management of BDO. People are the main resource of our business, we have no other resources here. We sell services provided by people to people, everything in our business revolves around people. Therefore, I think that human relations are the most important thing - both among employees and to find contact with the client. Our activity is based on the ability to establish a relationship with the other, because the knowledge is already more or less similar. If there are two good lawyers, the one who can build a human relationship with the client will do better.
It is very interesting that you now value freedom, do not want to work for a salary and give freedom to your employees, but at the beginning of the conversation you said that during the Soviet era you had a certain framework and that it was very good - in contrast to the fact that now children have no framework and there are no stops...
Yes, it is interesting. In general, I like order, I am a big planner. On the one hand, I really capture that freedom, it's insanely important to me. I have always been occupied with the question - what is freedom anyway? By the way, I started studying philosophy at the University of Latvia from the beginning of September... Freedom is such a broad concept, I think about it a lot. But on the other hand, I am the kind of person who plans everything. I don't really go with the flow, I'm not a liberal hippie. I move forward quite systematically - I have a plan, and then I fill what I eat. And it is important to me that no one interferes with my plan; I want to implement my own plans.
Finding that balance could be difficult.
It is, but I also spend a lot of time with artists; it is the environment that suggests me. I think that's where I find freedom, because it's hard to find it in the environment of lawyers - we are very rational, logical and structured people, translators and interpreters of the law. But I am also attracted to the creative. The legal profession is also creative, you have to be able to interpret, and I always liked that - that there is that element of creativity.
To some extent, this is even the main thing I learned from the lessons - that there is more than one solution to a problem. The question is how you will choose and prove your solution. It takes creativity to do this. I admire artists and other creative people, I think it's a gift from God and not everyone is given it.
You have a large collection of paintings in your office. Who chooses them and how?
Jānis and I both collect. Jānis has a more classical approach, he is also more interested in the academic school of painting. On the other hand, I like the creative process and artistic creativity more, and it does not always have to materialize in a physically tangible work. The artist's train of thought is more interesting. I really like performances, talking with artists. For four years now, I have been managing the art foundation W Foundation, which has a relatively large art collection, part of which is currently exhibited in the Zuzeum gallery. We collect mainly the works of young, contemporary artists - in this way we want to support artists who are still looking for their own way. We also have an Artists' Residence in Pāvilost - a place where young artists can live and create. There is also an art gallery.
We believe that art is one of the best ways to search for and discuss various current topics, as well as to create an intellectually saturated and multi-layered resonant environment. I find the political environment super boring, for example. Sometimes I wonder how people focus only on making money. Life is so vast, without money there are hundreds more, so many things to think about, read, study!
I would like society to think more about it.
I would like entrepreneurs to become patrons and take more responsibility and care not only for their personal, but also for our common living space, culture and country, making it interesting for themselves in its versatility and freshness of ideas, intellectually challenging and cultural. Making money should not be an end in itself.
If there is no money, it is quite difficult to think about art or any higher, intangible things...
Of course! You can think about art if you already have money, but don't stop there. Money by itself does not make a person rich.
Art goes hand in hand with education. I have spent quite a lot of time in the artists' residence - it is an environment in which to discuss. Currently there is an exhibition by Ieva Epner. She is not a classical artist, she does not paint portraits; works with researching and documenting various issues. She has exhibited a video work in our gallery documenting the last year of a Latvian school; then that school was closed. With this, she draws attention to the broader issue of Latvia's education system, the fate of small schools. And then we organize discussions and lectures around the exhibition. That's how we try to solve various issues through art, which maybe we don't pay so much attention to on a daily basis. However, through art it is possible to appeal to people visually, to captivate them. Personally, various revelations have come to me directly through works of art, but less often in fine arts. Of course, any portrait or other painting makes you think, for example, who is this person, where and why is he there, and so on. This is especially important for children. We used to go to museums quite a lot when we were kids. Any art invites you to think about what is happening there, but precisely in contemporary art, through abstraction, you are even more invited to pay attention to various issues.
The same applies to ecology, nature. Pāvilosta's residence is located on the seashore, we very much invite people to discuss ecological issues there. It seems to me that man has somehow fallen out of nature, lost. We have forgotten our place in nature. I think it is especially important that Latvian entrepreneurs who already have money understand these true values and what is important. They should think about the environment and the country, how to build it.
How should Latvian entrepreneurs change?
We must come to the realization that it is important not only to take, but also to give. I was just in Denmark, I went out on the street in Copenhagen and I thought - people here have really understood something! I think they have somehow agreed together that they want to live well, that they are responsible for it themselves, will pay their own taxes and enjoy themselves.
It's different here in Latvia, people think - I hate everything here, I don't trust anyone, I won't pay taxes and I'll leave immediately. I hear more and more: "We think where is better - Dubai or Spain?" I want to say - old man, where are you going, no one is waiting for you there! It's the same there, or maybe even worse.
Latvia is an ideal place. Why can't we create, conclude such a social partnership ourselves? How to make people believe? It has happened in Denmark. No one gave them a ready-made country either, but you can see that they have come to an agreement. They don't need posts on every corner. There are no poles! People also understand where to stop, not to push others. Somehow that law and order is inside them. We, on the other hand, seem to do everything that is not forbidden.
We have been where Denmark. In the twenties and thirties, Latvia was a more developed country than Denmark.
Distrust of others, unwillingness to cooperate, in my opinion, is also a problem. But in order to do something, to achieve it, it is important to do it together, to support each other. This is what Lithuanians and Estonians do. We - everything one by one, not trusting anyone. In the end there is nothing... Everything is either shot down or hidden.
Lawyer Vita Liberte believes that freedom is important for a person, the only question is what everyone understands by it.
Source: FORBES